Bringing 5 warjacks to a 35 point game should be a crime. And I'm considering bring 6.
Amon Ad-Raza
* Crusader x3
* Dervish x2
Choir (6)
Idrians (6)
* UA
Vassal
Wracks
My opponent had Megalith, a Woldwarden, some stones, Bloodtrackers (PP - they did NOT need Weapon Master on their Thrown Javelins), and Baldur. I don't want to say I whooped him, because he played very smart, but bringing 5 jacks at 35 points should be illegal. It's just too good.
Friday, November 19, 2010
Tuesday, November 16, 2010
Timeout for Charity
The fall WM league ends this weekend with a Foodmachine tournament. All this tournament prep is going to be put on hold for that event. In other words, I wont be taking a jerky tourney list, I'll take something more fun.
I played prime Severius last week in a throw away league game against our youngest (8!!) player. The army was incredibly fun as it turns out and this is what I'll be taking:
Severius +6
* Revenger 6
* Crusader 6
* Templar 8
* Hierophant 2
Avatar of Menoth
Zealots 6
* Monolith Bearer 2
I played prime Severius last week in a throw away league game against our youngest (8!!) player. The army was incredibly fun as it turns out and this is what I'll be taking:
Severius +6
* Revenger 6
* Crusader 6
* Templar 8
* Hierophant 2
Avatar of Menoth
Zealots 6
* Monolith Bearer 2
Friday, November 12, 2010
Weekend results: Pop-and-drop v1
I got in two practice games against local people this past weekend. The first game, against Circle, I surprised my opponent because he'd never seen the pop-and-drop (I don't play it in friendly games at the store). The list worked exactly as intended: deliverers took out the blood trackers without every actually hitting, the sunburst put some damage on a Wold Warden, the Templar help up Wold's long enough for the Cleansers to burn them (yay for sprays not suffering the in-melee-to-hit penalty!). In the end I was able to walk the deliverer's up my right flank (there was a forest in the middle of the table) with the Redeemer and get Baldur in range. Pop and drop on turn three. I doubt Mr. V will be making any of the same mistakes again as he is a fast learner. Now that he's seen my one trick, I'm interested in playing him again and seeing what he'll do differently.
The second game was against an Absolonia (sp? isn't there a y in there?) tier 4 list. Opponent had a Carnivean, a Ravagore, an Angelius, 2 stingers, 2 shredders, a shepard and two forsaken. The tier benefits for Abs are disgusting! Advance deploy for lessers and advance move for heavies!? That's crazy! I deployed first and took up a refused flank position on a hill overlooking most of the battlefield. He countered by moving most his army and his caster into the woods directly opposite. We'd essentially turned a 4x4 table into a 2x4 table.
He was on me quickly with the heavies, and I sent out the Templar to hold them back. Some shots from the Sunburst, and cleansers helped the Templar take down the Ravagore, but then the Carnivean ate the Templar. Deliverers took down the lessers on my left while the heavy fight was happening at the woods edge. He held the Angel back for some reason and sent it in as a second wave on the left flank instead of using it to support the Carnivean push against the Templar.
I slowly whittle down the army until he had a forsaken and Abs left and then Kreoss popped his feat and charged Abs.
I won the game because my opponent made two bad decisions. One he didn't do a "combined arms" push on my right flank with the Angel, Carnivean, and Ravagore. Two he popped his feat a turn too late. Fully healing the Ravagore (it took me two turns to kill it fully) would have put the nail in the coffin for me as I couldn't handle two live heavies with just fire power.
From here I'll be modifying the list based on some suggestions from the MD Warmachine Crew:
BF: I think you're trying to round out your list and shorting yourself on
stuff to commit to the assassination- I'd consider dropping the
Crusader or the Templar (I'd keep the Templar, if it was me) and
adding more guns- Errants or second Deliverer Sunburst is a good
start.
JC: I think I'd go about 90 with the focus of this list and turn it into a army assassin list as the eFeora is your caster/armor assassin? I'm not a fan of one-trick lists, however good they are, just because suckitude of someone having one of those perfect counter lists.
Example: Use the feat to knock down his front two squads (or goodly portion of his army, especially what he is using to hold control points). Use Errants (drop delivers) to charge the knocked down front line, then quick work shoot other soft knocked down targets. One of the nice things about this is that you can play Kreoss a bit forward, and the Errants can then form a nice screen. Another nice bit about using it this way, is that it requires no focus expenditure.
I'd do just as you said, and lead with the Templar to draw out heavies, as that should be the few things he has left that would survive the Errants. With the Templar's natural armor and defender's ward, it'll take a huge beating to drop him so you'll hold enemy heavies in place for your counter charging, focus loaded, choir-hyped crusader.
Think about the lists you've faced, and subtract two squads from it, heavy hitters like kazazy, and such. You still have the caster assassination threat from the Redeemer, but really, take out two-ish enemy squads and you'll have plenty of vectors for normal caster assassination and you control the board.
The second game was against an Absolonia (sp? isn't there a y in there?) tier 4 list. Opponent had a Carnivean, a Ravagore, an Angelius, 2 stingers, 2 shredders, a shepard and two forsaken. The tier benefits for Abs are disgusting! Advance deploy for lessers and advance move for heavies!? That's crazy! I deployed first and took up a refused flank position on a hill overlooking most of the battlefield. He countered by moving most his army and his caster into the woods directly opposite. We'd essentially turned a 4x4 table into a 2x4 table.
He was on me quickly with the heavies, and I sent out the Templar to hold them back. Some shots from the Sunburst, and cleansers helped the Templar take down the Ravagore, but then the Carnivean ate the Templar. Deliverers took down the lessers on my left while the heavy fight was happening at the woods edge. He held the Angel back for some reason and sent it in as a second wave on the left flank instead of using it to support the Carnivean push against the Templar.
I slowly whittle down the army until he had a forsaken and Abs left and then Kreoss popped his feat and charged Abs.
I won the game because my opponent made two bad decisions. One he didn't do a "combined arms" push on my right flank with the Angel, Carnivean, and Ravagore. Two he popped his feat a turn too late. Fully healing the Ravagore (it took me two turns to kill it fully) would have put the nail in the coffin for me as I couldn't handle two live heavies with just fire power.
From here I'll be modifying the list based on some suggestions from the MD Warmachine Crew:
BF: I think you're trying to round out your list and shorting yourself on
stuff to commit to the assassination- I'd consider dropping the
Crusader or the Templar (I'd keep the Templar, if it was me) and
adding more guns- Errants or second Deliverer Sunburst is a good
start.
JC: I think I'd go about 90 with the focus of this list and turn it into a army assassin list as the eFeora is your caster/armor assassin? I'm not a fan of one-trick lists, however good they are, just because suckitude of someone having one of those perfect counter lists.
Example: Use the feat to knock down his front two squads (or goodly portion of his army, especially what he is using to hold control points). Use Errants (drop delivers) to charge the knocked down front line, then quick work shoot other soft knocked down targets. One of the nice things about this is that you can play Kreoss a bit forward, and the Errants can then form a nice screen. Another nice bit about using it this way, is that it requires no focus expenditure.
I'd do just as you said, and lead with the Templar to draw out heavies, as that should be the few things he has left that would survive the Errants. With the Templar's natural armor and defender's ward, it'll take a huge beating to drop him so you'll hold enemy heavies in place for your counter charging, focus loaded, choir-hyped crusader.
Think about the lists you've faced, and subtract two squads from it, heavy hitters like kazazy, and such. You still have the caster assassination threat from the Redeemer, but really, take out two-ish enemy squads and you'll have plenty of vectors for normal caster assassination and you control the board.
Thursday, November 11, 2010
Eye of the Tiger: 35 point pop-and-drop
Getting my butt whopped up and down the Warstore Weekend (and then by Mr. Conner) was humbling to say the least. So I'm packing up my Legion, which I'm not very good with, and packing in the flame throwers!
I'm developing two lists, an eFeora anti-armor assassination list and a pKreoss pop-n-drop list. The eFeora list I'm fairly familiar with as I've been playing her since I first started Warmachine. The pop-n-drop list has always felt dirty to me since it's just too easy. But because I've never used it, it is the Kreoss list I am practicing with and refining first.
Army Name: pop-n-drop v2
Protectorate of Menoth
35+5 points, 30 models
High Exemplar Kreoss +5 points
* Crusader 6 points
* Redeemer 6 points
* Templar 8 points
6 Choir of Menoth 3 points
Deliverer Sunburst Crew 3 points
10 Deliverers 8 points
6 Flameguard Cleansers 5 points
Vassal Mechanik 1 point
Kreoss - The "pop" in the list is named for his feat. When Kreoss feats all enemy models in his control area are knocked down. He also comes with Defenders Ward (which goes on the Crusader or the Templar), Lamentation and Purification. Purification is used to remove Solid Ground or any other anti-knockdown upkeeps. If the anti-knockdown comes from some other spell effect, e.g. the Covenant, this list should not be used. With 5 focus left over, running two heavies and a redeemer is pushing his limit, but the Templar, I've found, is fairly self sufficient.
Templar - With reach, the Templar holds the enemy back from charging the delicates in the back field and escorts the cleansers into firing position.
Crusader - A recent (untested) addition. I dropped a vassal and a devout to pick up a crusader and a mechanic. In multiple test games the devout, from the first version of the list, has done nothing and the vassal has just died.
Redeemer - Combined with the Deliverers, this warjack exists in the list as the "drop" of the pop-n-drop. He is quite effective at clearing high def, low armor troops from the table on the turns leading up to the feat.
Sunburst - Currently in danger of losing it's spot in the list to Vilmon (for object holding in SR 2011 scenarios). I included it to fit the theme of the pop-n-drop, but it is proving quite effective. A POW 16 at range 14 is awesome. And then you give it AOE4 and it gets even better. I'm reticent to remove it because I like having more tools than needed to fulfill the lists mission, but I think it might be a little bit overkill.
Deliverers - The "drop" of the list. With the new CRA they're allowed to make, Deliverers are surprisingly accurate and deadly. Combined with the Redeemer, they took care of a Ravagore (granted with phenomenal damage rolls).
Cleansers - The cleansers are there to help clear charge lanes for Kreoss and his melee jacks in the event that I run into a caster that I cannot knockdown. But if thats the case, I should have taken my eFeora list.
Menite Support - All Menoth lists carry support models. It's just a question of which ones. In this case I went for the Choir (duh) and a mechanic. When I start losing jack systems, especially the redeemer, my list really starts to fall apart. The protection afforded me by the heavies up front has been the secret weapon in this list and when they die, Kreoss, unless I've bled the other caster, is shortly behind. Keeping those jacks running is important and a mechanic helps with that.
Strategy is simple, identify enemy caster, bring caster into feat range, feat, rain fiery death via bottle rocket, profit!
Can anyone think of holes in the list? How would you, as my opponent, attack this? My friend Marc did run his forsaken right into the deliverers who turned tail and booked it. Which was not cool!
I'm developing two lists, an eFeora anti-armor assassination list and a pKreoss pop-n-drop list. The eFeora list I'm fairly familiar with as I've been playing her since I first started Warmachine. The pop-n-drop list has always felt dirty to me since it's just too easy. But because I've never used it, it is the Kreoss list I am practicing with and refining first.
Army Name: pop-n-drop v2
Protectorate of Menoth
35+5 points, 30 models
High Exemplar Kreoss +5 points
* Crusader 6 points
* Redeemer 6 points
* Templar 8 points
6 Choir of Menoth 3 points
Deliverer Sunburst Crew 3 points
10 Deliverers 8 points
6 Flameguard Cleansers 5 points
Vassal Mechanik 1 point
Kreoss - The "pop" in the list is named for his feat. When Kreoss feats all enemy models in his control area are knocked down. He also comes with Defenders Ward (which goes on the Crusader or the Templar), Lamentation and Purification. Purification is used to remove Solid Ground or any other anti-knockdown upkeeps. If the anti-knockdown comes from some other spell effect, e.g. the Covenant, this list should not be used. With 5 focus left over, running two heavies and a redeemer is pushing his limit, but the Templar, I've found, is fairly self sufficient.
Templar - With reach, the Templar holds the enemy back from charging the delicates in the back field and escorts the cleansers into firing position.
Crusader - A recent (untested) addition. I dropped a vassal and a devout to pick up a crusader and a mechanic. In multiple test games the devout, from the first version of the list, has done nothing and the vassal has just died.
Redeemer - Combined with the Deliverers, this warjack exists in the list as the "drop" of the pop-n-drop. He is quite effective at clearing high def, low armor troops from the table on the turns leading up to the feat.
Sunburst - Currently in danger of losing it's spot in the list to Vilmon (for object holding in SR 2011 scenarios). I included it to fit the theme of the pop-n-drop, but it is proving quite effective. A POW 16 at range 14 is awesome. And then you give it AOE4 and it gets even better. I'm reticent to remove it because I like having more tools than needed to fulfill the lists mission, but I think it might be a little bit overkill.
Deliverers - The "drop" of the list. With the new CRA they're allowed to make, Deliverers are surprisingly accurate and deadly. Combined with the Redeemer, they took care of a Ravagore (granted with phenomenal damage rolls).
Cleansers - The cleansers are there to help clear charge lanes for Kreoss and his melee jacks in the event that I run into a caster that I cannot knockdown. But if thats the case, I should have taken my eFeora list.
Menite Support - All Menoth lists carry support models. It's just a question of which ones. In this case I went for the Choir (duh) and a mechanic. When I start losing jack systems, especially the redeemer, my list really starts to fall apart. The protection afforded me by the heavies up front has been the secret weapon in this list and when they die, Kreoss, unless I've bled the other caster, is shortly behind. Keeping those jacks running is important and a mechanic helps with that.
Strategy is simple, identify enemy caster, bring caster into feat range, feat, rain fiery death via bottle rocket, profit!
Can anyone think of holes in the list? How would you, as my opponent, attack this? My friend Marc did run his forsaken right into the deliverers who turned tail and booked it. Which was not cool!
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